British Columbia
We’d like to hear your story about how railway noise and vibration has affected you, and your community. Tell us about the problems you’ve had – or are continuing to have – with railway noise and vibration. How has it affected you and your quality of life? We’d like to hear about your successes and frustrations in resolving your concerns, as well as hear what current conditions are like in your area.
News Articles, Blogs, Stories and Comments from BC Residents … and Posts Relating to BC …
- Bolivar Heights: Residents comment on the post Welcome to New Community Groups! Visit their website at Bolivar Heights.
- Coquitlam: Residents comment below.
- Golden: Residents comment on the post Defective Rail Cars a Safety Concern for Communities regarding CP Rail.
- Kamloops: Residents comment on the page Resources regarding CN Rail.
- New Westminster: Visit the residents’ website: The Quayside Community Board.
- Squamish: Residents are affected by excessive whistling. Read the article.
- Vancouver: Forestry industry complains of bad rail service in the post Forestry Industry Asks for Rail Service to be Regulated.
- North Vancouver: New community blog called RANT: Residents Against Noisy Trains.
- New Westminister: See the post Communities in the News.
- North Vancouver: See the post Communities in the News.
- Port Coquitlam: See the post Communities in the News.
- Port Moody: See the post Communities in the News.
- White Rock: See the post Communities in the News: The List Continues to Grow.
- North Vancouver: See the post Communities in the News: The List Continues to Grow.
- New Westminister: See the post Communities in the News: The List Continues to Grow.
- Prince George: See the post Communities in the News: The List Continues to Grow.
- Squamish: See the post Communities in the News: The List Continues to Grow.
- Golden: See the post Cellphone and Marijuana Use Cited in CP Rail Crash.
- New Westminister: See the post Federal Court of Appeal to Rule on Key Railway Noise and Vibration Issue.
- Golden: See the post FAQ: Contacting Canada’s Two Largest Railways With Your Railway Noise and Vibration Problem.
- Golden: See the post FAQ: Contacting Canada’s Two Largest Railways With Your Railway Noise and Vibration Problem.
- New Westminister: See the post FAQ: Contacting Canada’s Two Largest Railways With Your Railway Noise and Vibration Problem.
- Golden: See the post FAQ: Contacting Canada’s Two Largest Railways With Your Railway Noise and Vibration Problem.
- Pitt Meadows: See the post Communities in the News: Health and Environmental Concerns Raised.
- North Vancouver: See the post Communities in the News: Health and Environmental Concerns Raised.
- Prince George: See the post Communities in the News: Health and Environmental Concerns Raised.
- Prince Rupert: See the post Communities in the News: Health and Environmental Concerns Raised.
- Prince George: See the website People’s Action Committee for Healthly Air (PACHA).
- Pitt Meadows: See the website Pitt Polder Preservation Society.
I live in Coquitlam and have to deal with shunting, vibration, and locomotive idling 3-4 nights a week. We are on the CP line, and when I contacted them about the issue, they basically told me tough luck.
I’m a pilot and we have strict noise abatement procedures that we must follow at airports, surely Transport Canada can impose some sort of procedure for the rail industry as well.
We would recommend getting back in touch with CP Rail and letting them know that the “tough luck” option ran out for them on June 22, 2007.
That is also the day when CP stopped being “Cannot Participate” and turned into “Cooperation Pending” when Parliament passed Amendments to The Canada Transportation Act, under clauses 95.1- 95.3, to address unreasonable railway noise and vibration levels, and obliged railways to take into account “the area where the construction or operation takes place” such as residential areas.
A process was subsequently set into motion that returned jurisdiction to The Canadian Transportation Agency to oversee such complaints, and to render a Decision on the matter if a collaborative approach, including a formal mediation process, fails.
Telling you “tough luck” would not be particularly collaborative, it seems.
Perhaps you could get back in touch with your point of contact at CP and wish them a warm welcome back to accountability, after a 7 year hiatus.
Competitor CN Rail’s strenuous objection and legal challenge of prior regulation saw provisions for railway noise and vibration overturned in 2000, leaving many affected communities across Canada wallowing in a noisy, regulatory void. Many experienced severely impacted living conditions. Without regulation, often people found their complaints to rail companies frequently disregarded, ignored or otherwise unresolved.
In response, Parliament passed Amendments to reign in a problem that rail companies allowed to fester out of control. Railways could have quite possibly avoided this step being taken if they had chosen to self-regulate instead. They had a 7 year window in which to do this.
They failed. Parliament stepped in, and now affected citizens have a process in place to address unreasonable noise and vibration from railway operations.
Please review our “Resources” page for information about this process. Let CP know – in writing – what specific aspects of their operations you are finding unreasonable, and why. Be detailed. Have there been any changes in operations that have led to any of the problems you are experiencing? Include that information as well.
Searching by location, is your area one that has been affected by the change in yard operations in that freight containers are no longer being used as a form of noise barrier? We have heard unconfirmed reports of this being a problem in around your general area, leading to increased noise levels.
Are your neighbours experiencing the problems that you are? Consider having them sign on to the letter you provide to CP, possibly in the form of a petition. Give a copy to the City, and ask them to get involved. The guidelines put together by The Canadian Transportation Agency encourage their participation. Ask them to meet to discuss the problems with the rail company, along with constructive solutions.
Keep a detailed log of the problems you believe to be unreasonable, along with notes as to what works well. Make sure CP knows what specific things it does that reduce the impact of its operations. Sometimes making relatively minor modifications in operations can significantly reduce noise and vibration disturbances, such as where idling engines are left, and ensuring that engines are not unnecessarily left running.
If problems persist, consider requesting mediation from the Canadian Transportation Agency with CP. Local officials could participate in this process as well, so consider asking them.
After exhausting all collaborative measures such as this, if problems persist, you could then consider returning to the Agency with your complaint for their consideration to render a formal public Decision on the matter, on the basis that you meet the required criteria to have them intervene.
We wish you success in resolving this situation.
Hello all,
I am a VERY concerned mom. I have 2 children and one already has a heart condition. We live RIGHT on the train track. Well ok, just a few feet from the track, literally the track line backs up against my fence.
I have been fighting with CP for 5 years now about their trains idling for HOURS at a time in my back yard where my kids play. CP doesn’t give a poop and will not stop polluting my family. I have fought and fought about this to CP and begged them stop somewhere else and to stop being negligent to the health and safety of the community they are polluting.
I am so sad about this cause we just can’t afford to move and my kids are exposed to DIRECT diesel fumes for hours a day. As well the noise is so loud for them to be playing right beside an idling train all day.
As CP has made it known they don’t care about the health of my family I want to sue but am unsure if I can or how. Does anyone have any advice for me?
We are very sorry to hear that you and your family are being negatively affected by rail operations.
You’re not alone in this problem, we get more complaints about idling locomotives than anything else, which is quite remarkable, considering the high cost of fuel, and “fuel conservation” policies.
You might find it helpful to log these incidents, recording time, duration, location, and engine numbers, if visible from a location not on railway property.
The reason we suggest this is that it may prove of assistance if you decide to contact The Canadian Transportation Agency to ask for their help in trying to resolve the issue from the standpoint of unreasonable noise and vibration from rail operations.
Are any of your neighbours being affected by this? Was this situation the result of an operational change made by CP Rail, and when? Has the railway ever provided an explanation?
Have you notified local city officials about your concerns, and asked if they could contact the railway on your behalf?
Have you notified CP in writing yourself about your concerns? If so, what sort of feedback has the railway provided? Have they acknowledged your concerns?
The key here, in our opinion, is to try (and track) all collaborative measures possible to show that you’ve done all possible to try to find a solution with the railway. Take a look on our resources page at the links we’ve provided to The Canadian Transportation Agency and the official dispute resolution process.
We wish you well, stay in touch.
I can’t stand the honking at night! I understand it’s industry standard to honk at intersections to warn motorists, but don’t we have all the infrastructure?? There are lights, both traffic and train, as well as a gate, at Begbie; similarly, the overpass.. I don’t understand why they’re honking. Godforbid it’s for communication and we’ve been putting up with irritating, cacophonous morse-code because they haven’t splurged on walkie-talkies
I hope the pending litigation is successful, you have my undying/unsleeping support. If you need a guerrilla-esque honk-squad to sonically bombard the CEO of CP’s house at 3am with airhorns, just mosey on up to Agnes- we’ll be here.
We presume you are referring to New Westminster, B.C., in an area of high-density residential housing, where, as we understand it, the majority of railway activity takes place after midnight.
All in all, a thoroughly untenable situation, and a good example of why solutions have to be found to keep railways operating safely and less obtrusively for its residential neighbours.
Your question is a good one, and one that more and more Canadians are asking, and need to continue asking. It’s time for answers and meaningful solutions.
Trains are creating a lot of noise pollution in the Coquitlam area. I would like to inform you about what happens in Europe where population and train traffic is a lot denser than here in the Canada.
Trains in Europe don’t honk. Period.
Drivers are assumed to respect the red lights, barriers and bell signals at the railroad crossings. Offenders are caught by cameras just as they are caught while not-respecting a red light at other traffic crossings.
Penalties are severe and can even include drivers license suspension and jail time (just as for drunk driving).
If I understand it well, some syupid rule forces the trains to honk always, several times at every railroad crossing in the Canada.
Instead of solving the real problem (hunt and fine the offenders) this law is punishing everyone living miles around railroads.Please stop the noise pollution and help us to have a better sleep at night.
Thank you for your comments, we completely agree with you. The rule you refer to, 14 l – can be found in the Canadian Railway Operating Rules.
With the amount of rail activity now taking place late at night here in Canada, we believe it is imperative that a less-invasive signalling system be established at crossings in residential areas.
The idea that that it is acceptable and necessary to routinely compromise the sleep of residents in order to operate a train safely is in dire need of an overhaul to a more integrated approach, one that focuses on the safety of the railways and its personnel, balanced by a healthy respect for neighbouring residential communities’ basic requirement for rest and sleep.
The current system of blasting whistles in the middle of the night, often repeatedly disrupting the rest of weary residents, seems to make these folks a form of collateral damage in the course of rail operations. The effects of sleep deprivation are well-known; and it’s time to establish a less intrusive railway warning system that addresses this growing problem.
In order to keep railway operations safe, residents too often feel that theirs is compromised by the inability to get sufficient rest inside their own homes.
Railways strenuously deter trespassing on their property – and for a number of good reasons.
And yet, the use of high-decibel piercing whistles waking people inside their own homes, thoroughly disrupting them…isn’t this, in fact, an auditory form of trespass?
It’s time to rethink the current system…we think that there are better solutions that keep railways operating safely, residents functioning properly, and a healthier relationship between the two.
Thank you for bringing up some excellent points.
These clowns are arrogant. If they want a war give it to them. Everybody should put up blockades and shut them down for as long as it takes. Or go to their houses and honk our car and truck horns all day while they are trying to sleep.If idiots are going to beat trains at crossings then it\s their problem just like someone jumping off a bridge.
My sincere condolences go to the families of the three VIA train engineers who lost their lives in the recent Ontario train accident, and those passengers injured. As far as railway safety and noise issues are concerned, I believe it is important to see the commentary on the CBC report and TSB reports links below, and ask more questions? Are longer industrial trains going to reduce noise and vibration impacts, or the public, environmental impacts and safety concerns, when something happens?
BC has alot of challenging mountainous terrain, and many communities through which these longer trains will pass through.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/02/27/f-rail-safety.html
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/index.asp
Cheers
Its currently 1:10am on Friday, May 18 2012 and a train has had its horn on constantly for about the last 10 minutes. My wife and I moved into the neighbourhood around six months ago, and while we don’t hear the trains all the time, when the wind blows in the right direction we hear the train horns and feel the vibration from the trains – and we live at least a good 3-4km up the hill from where the trains are! … I actually feel sorry for people who live closer to the tracks than we do … wow, that horn is STILL going …
You’ve raised a very good point, and one that we are hearing with increasing frequency. Noise pollution from rail operations, especially late night whistling – is becoming increasingly disruptive for residents who live a considerable distance from the railway…
i think all of us should go to the city hall in coquitlam and new west to show our concern,people in Germany did the same thing and trains there dont honk or whistle in the residential area
Don’t forget to also let your Member of Parliament know about this problem as well.
Late night whistling by railways continues to be one of the key complaints we receive.
It would be interesting to see a study on how this form of sleep disruption is affecting the lives and health of affected Canadians, and its potential ripple affect on the Canadian economy through lost productivity.
The police wre at my house Again yesterday June 22 2012 relating to a harassmentn complaint i tried to file with the New West’r police This action was taken by me as i have been in jail several times for mischiefb and threatening. I was told by the Judge if they were deliberatly making unnecessary noise to bother myself and the neighbours to make these complaints. But as usual the Railroads tell the cops baffle gab B.S. They constantlly blow whistles and ring bells at intersections when they are within a few hundred feet. How is this a safety law by rail. The CTA says warning devices to be used one quarter mile or 20 seconds from intersection. This is not the case. How the FFFFF do you plan on stopping when your sounding off within a couple of hundred feet This is how arrogant these jerks. SO WHERE IS THE Safety issue. Other than myself everyone that has the balls should get together and stand at City hall demanding action. Also people like to get some sleep before they go to work in the morning. That’s what apparentley happened in Germany and that put an end to certain hours of operation. Supposedly the railroads are supposed to beb 300 metres away in (wait for it) inCANADA. These clowns are not above the law. If this problem takes violence so be it. Thank you for any comments. The politicians should be firedn and thrown out/ they do not give crap about us unless we stand up for ourselves.
Hello Mr. Prokovich, we repeat ourselves once again here to you that we completely reject the use of any form of aggression in this matter, but remain deeply concerned about the severity of the railway noise and air pollution problem in New Westminster, B.C. that continues to affect you, and many other residents in that locale. Yours is an example of what happens when the issue is pushed to a breaking point, and as such, should have, in our opinion, never been allowed to escalate into the situation it is now.
Sure honking at night is for the safety of anyone that might be on the tracks at night, but come on! Repeatedly honking at 6 in the morning over and over and over seems as if the driver is playing some kind of practical joke on the residents in the Coquitlam Kingsway area. Once is fine, but unless there’s some form of threat then horning MULTIPLE times is completely unnecessary.
New procedures should be implemented on how these trains cross intersections. There should be no honking going on unless a threat is posed. Trains should go really slow so if anything happens they can stop in a timely manner. But for now, I really feel bad for my neighbors that are elderly or have kids.
The railway’s use of high-decibel whistles, particularly during the night in residential areas, continues to be a growing problem here in Canada.
As railway traffic increases, so too does the intrusive disruption from whistles, affecting the ability for many citizens to get a good night’s rest inside the privacy of their own homes.
The current process surrounding whistle cessation is extremely complex, and often prohibitively expensive for many affected communities.
It’s our opinion that the human costs of this practice deserves serious consideration by both industry and various levels of government.
With the growing number of people enduring sleep disruption or deprivation due to being woken regularly by train whistles, how is this affecting the productivity of these people? What does this loss of productivity cost our economy annually? What is the overall impact on human health, given our growing understanding of the negative affects of noise pollution? How many of these people head off to work after another night of interrupted rest and experience injury or accident as a result of not being sufficiently alert?
We think it’s necessary to determine the answers to these questions, and we believe that those answers may well be truly shocking.
What do you mean by not letting my comments escalate? People need to be aware of the problems with the railroad. So what is the PROBLEM?
Hello Mr. Prokovich,
We agree that there is a need to air issues pertaining to railways and problems being faced in the community. That’s one of the reasons for this blog. Where we differ is in the area of escalation of words or action; our view is that escalation does little to remedy problems; often, it can worsen them. We can only hope that your situation improves as more and more people become aware of the circumstances being faced by the railway’s neighbouring residents.
I forgot to ask you if you have i think you have read other comments on rail and reason. I am not afraid to speak my opinion. Even if i lived in communist China or Russia. The problem and comments will not go away until there is a compromisen between the railroads and the people. I and we know they also have a job to do but without the unnecessary whistling and smashing and deliberate crashing. Thanks for any more input you may.
Your comment about my aggression , youn missed the point. If you blow your whistle like a jerk and ringing the bells at within a few hundred feet for a safety warning how do theyb plan on stopping the train in time? Their required by their law to blow 2 long 1 short 1long 1 quarter of mile or 20 seconds from the intersection. Your dealing with the PNE not working people.
Hi All
You need your municpality to pass a no whistle bylaw.On Cp in London Ont, Guelph Ont & Chatham Ont there has been no whistle for over 40 years.
Get the lobby effort into high gear!
Jeff Willsie
President
OSR
Thanks Mr. Willsie. With respect, it sounds like you are blowing your own whistle so that your locomotives don’t have to!
Seriously though, it’s just not that easy in all cases, especially when the cost of flashing lights, bells, and gates are part of the equation; that can run into hundreds of thousands of dollars, a very significant expense for local government and taxpayers.
How has the railway been able to pass so many costs off to the public to pay, when the benefit is mutual?
Sounds like another area of rail operations that’s overdue for an update…a better formula for sharing costs!
Helo, I am new to B.C, Im at 72nd and King George in Newton, Surrey and the railroad crossing noise was just on for min 20 minutes :S Its 2:20am and the horns are so loud too-it seems uneccessary for them to be that loud. Is there anyone I can contact about this please? Is it really necessary to have all the noise,multiple times a night, when the trains are moving so slow thru a crossing anyway? Please let me know where to go to about this or if there is a group fighting this. I understand the railway was here first before apartments but there must be a way to reconcile the noise issue. Even earplugs arent helping me get a decent nights sleep and I otherwise LOVE the neighborhood because its not super busy. Its not like there is an issue with people walking alongside railroad tracks/crossroads at night who would typically miss the flashing lights. If the concern is deaf&blind people crossing tracks at night, maybe there could be a better solution for that. Thank you so much.
Hello Farzana,
We are hearing from more and more people who are getting extremely fed up with the late night use of train whistles.
To try to get the whistles stopped, please refer to the resources section listed in this blog.
You will need the cooperation of the City, the railway, and Transport Canada.
How are your neighbours coping with this problem? Have you considered gathering signatures to support your application.
Have you contacted the railway to let them know that you’d like to seek whistle cessation? How do they view the situation?
Good luck with this situation, let us know how things go.
This is absolutely crazy that SRY rail link gets away with this. We live in a brand new community about 50 meters from the track. When we bought our place, there were no trains blasting their horns while the presentation went on, the sales people said it wasn’t an issue and no one ever complained, so we bought. To be honest, at first it wasn’t bad at all, now my 2 year old constantly gets violently woken up in the middle of the night by some clown leaning on the horn. I would love to know how these residential zoning permits get approved with noise like that? What do we have to do to get some sleep around here? How is this possibly legal yet I bet I could get a ticket for driving down the street at 3am with my stereo on?
I’ve written my MLP, I’ve written City hall, SRY, the mayor, all of them. Very little response. THOUSANDS of people live in my community which is rapidly expanding every day, yet the train traffic seems to be letting off in the daytime, and growing throughout the night, louder and louder. I don’t think it will be long before someone does something completely irrational.
I would argue that sitting on the flight deck of an air craft carrier would present the same noise levels as a 50 car train shunting at 3am. NOONE sleeps through that!
Would you be in a new community located on the Queensborough end of New Westminster, B.C.?
We’ve heard of a new development in that area that we’ve been concerned about.
Have you told your local real estate board, in writing, of the assurances that you were given at the time? We’ve heard more than one complaint in and around that area of the noise from trains – and whistling – being downplayed by trusting buyers.
It’s extremely difficult for one to anticipate how disruptive whistling can be for residents until they’ve actually experienced it, in which case, you unfortunately now have.
Have you considered going to your local media with the issue as to how this project went ahead, given that New Westminster seems to be a real hotspot in Canada for railway noise and whistling problems?
Given the severity of problems in around the New Westminster, B.C. Quay area, why is the City approving further development without adequate setbacks, as laid in the Proximity Report that the Federation of Canadian Municipalities and the Railway Association of Canada jointly published in 2007? You can find a link on this site.
Have you spoken to the railway and to Transport Canada about whistle cessation there? You would need to get their support, and get the City onboard as well.
Let us know of any progress that you make, and any answers that you might consider sharing with others here.
i have read somewhere that people i’m not sure of, north vancouver? said they were not going to pay anymore property taxes until the city did something about the unecessary all nite whistle blowing., things apparently are a lot better now. people that have to work would like to get some sleep. we should actually follow some of these engineers [CLOWNS] home and honk our horns all day. you may be aressted for making too much noise. HA HA
We don’t know of the situation in North Vancouver, B.C. that you refer to, but we have heard that the Port and railway are set for an upcoming expansion there, so that will be an interesting one to follow.
we have a lot of train noise complaints but nothing about quite often diesel smoke and breathing the fumes especially when you live in close proximity. we also get major carbon and diesel soot all over our houses almost every night from southern bc rail here in new west’r bc along river drive 24 seven. metro vancouver has passed a bylaw on the amount of emissions aloud but they do nothing except take a f’n pay check from taxpayers; while we continue our fight with the railroad involving excessive noise and pollution while we get no sleep and have to go to work the next day. also our children breathing these fumes .once again PROFITS before HEALTH. do you wonder why there is so much CANCER? read the cancer statistics and you see about diesel fumes causing tons of cancer.we have to keep on fighting but a lot more aggresivley and stop talking too much.
You bring up an important point Mr. Prokovich – the unsightly soot from railways that settles around or even stains nearby homes.
It’s a good visual yardstick as to the exposure that some residential areas are being subjected to. The idling is bad enough – why aren’t particulate filters in use to protect the environment and the public?
It would be an interesting photographic assignment for someone to undertake and publicize…
Hi Tranejane
Where have you been? Did you finally smarten up & move? Did you get your municipal council to pass a whistle bylaw?
It is so buisy here in Southern Ontario i had to buy more locomotives. I wish the government would build more nuclear power plants so electrifiation of the railways could begin.
have a safe day.
Jeff Willsie
Pres
OSR
Dear Mr. Willsie,
We’ve taken time away from the blog in order to pursue some other developments concerning the topics that this blog covers, as well as some outside interests. Thank you for your concern.
As to your other comments about my “municipal council” asking if I’ve moved, need I remind you gently about the pitfalls contained in the word “assume…”
Where I live has absolutely nothing to do with my commitment to the issues I write about. Whether I live adjacent to a railway, or miles away on an island without a rail line in sight, or somewhere in between, I’ll be continuing to follow social and environmental issues pertaining to railways, regardless of wherever I live now, or in the future.
A move closer or further away will not affect my views on these issues.
How are your locomotives that you bought working out? Are they equipped with Smart Start or a similar idle-reduction technology?
Where are you leaving them when not in use?
What is your company’s policy on idling, and does its have any public policy regarding the environment?
Did you get that littering problem resolved on your land? Wasn’t some of that debris starting to get a bit too close to your tracks? We were concerned when we viewed the video:
http://www.lfpress.com/2012/09/06/makeshift-junkyard-real-eyesore
The Locos need work but should be operating reasonably soon.
They do have auto shut downs. My environment policy is to shut them down if not in use for 20 min or longer in temp 0 deg C or higher. In winter the working locos go in the heated shop when not in use.
About the refuse i gave the MTO a couple of options & they have not responded. Transport Canada saw the issue 2 weeks ago & did not think it was of any concern. He said folks are using the railway as a dumping ground all across Canada.
Jeff Willsie
Mr. Willsie, if Ontario Southland Railway’s policy is to shut down locomotives if not in use for 20 minutes or longer, in temperatures of 0 C or higher, then OSR has one of the better locomotive shut down policies in place.
Finally, we can agree on something!
Also – you mention keeping your working locomotives in a heated shop. Why is this not done more often? Any insights?
Hi
I think the federal crossing fund pays 85% for new protected crossings & the rest 50/50 with the road authority & the railway. I expect the feds did this as since the railways were built they are absolutely essential to a healthy economy in this country. If you do not like the whistle complain to the feds or have the municipality pass the bylaw.it is as simple as that.
Jeff Willsie
Thanks for the info, Mr. Willsie. However, it’s more complex than just passing a bylaw. An agreement between the railway, Transport Canada, and the City or Municipality is also required, and that’s where it can get complicated, and has, in some areas.
Can someone explain why the crossing alarm sounds for 40 minutes at a times sometimes (At King George and 72nd in Surrey)? Cars have no choice but to ignore the warning and every few mins we will hear yelling and car horns honking. Whats happening there? It drives people crazy, I want to know how I can fix this issue and Im new to B.C, someone please let me know if theres a class action lawsuit or other measures I can be part of. I wonder how that can be allowed in a residential area? Theres got to be a way to reconcile the noise issue.
Hello Farzana,
Do you mean that the signals are being activated at this crossing for extended periods when there isn’t a train, and cars are driving through?
Or is the crossing occupied by a train that is stopped, activating the signals in the process?
In both instances, contact your local branch of Transport Canada’s Rail Division and report it to them. They oversee railway safety issues. There will be a Vancouver or Pacific Region office in your area for this.
I just found this link…How do I find out if 72nd and King George in Newton,Surrey can be exempt from the train noises please? Im unfamilier with B.C still, someone please direct me to the local group,lobby group or how to address this in my area, its very important to me as I love my neighborhood, we got the noisy drug dealer out, if the train is quiet we can sleep and enjoy Newton more. Thank you to anyone who replies to this, I have no idea how to get things into motion politics-wise in B.C yet, I appreciate all help.
just found this link http://www.surrey.ca/bylawsandcouncillibrary/BYL_reg_17535.pdf …How do I find out if 72nd and King George in Newton,Surrey can be exempt from the train noises please? Im unfamilier with B.C still, someone please direct me to the local group,lobby group or how to address this in my area, its very important to me as I love my neighborhood, we got the noisy drug dealer out, if the train is quiet we can sleep and enjoy Newton more. Thank you to anyone who replies to this, I have no idea how to get things into motion politics-wise in B.C yet, I appreciate all help. Sorry for the duplicate post
Hello Farzana, please check our “Resources” section for information concerning whistle cessation. You’ll need your City, Transport Canada, and the railway to come to an agreement together. This might take quite some time to have this set into place, if all parties agree.
The reason CN & CP do not have very many shops left to put the locos away is high property taxes. Cheaper to leave them running.
Jeff Willsie
If it’s cheaper to leave locomotives running incessantly, Mr. Willsie, it seems like the solution is to start raising the tax on locomotive fuel until wasting fuel, polluting the environment, and creating otherwise unnecessary noise, vibration, and fumes is no longer a financially attractive option.
Hello from the wee village of Spences Bridge in the interior of BC where we have both a CN and a CP line – one on each side of the Thompson River. We encounter 50 + trains per day…..
In an effort to “amp up” the impact of a complaint I sent to CP Rail yesterday, I added a link to my video documentation illustrating what i was complaining about and positively identifying the locomotive at the heart of the matter. I am awaiting their reply.
You can see that documentation at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGu8tfgPV0g
I am curious if others have used video in their complaint process and to what extent they were successful.
And thank you for the great resource you are making available here. Much appreciated!
Hi Dwayne,
You’ve put together a great video. It shows what would otherwise be impossible to explain to someone unfamiliar with the problem. We get the most complaints about noise, vibration, and fumes from idling locomotives, with whistling being a close second.
We have heard of others submitting video as part of their complaint process; we think it is potentially an effective tool, as long as it doesn’t involve trespassing on railway property. Youtube is also increasingly becoming a mechanism to share these clips with others effectively.
A couple of thoughts:
What was the ambient temperature during this incident? This is an important factor as most railways have a “fuel conservation policy,” believe it or not! Ask CP about theirs, CN Rail’s policy revolves around a 5 Celsius mark whereby engines are to be generally shut off when not in use for extended periods.
However, despite this, in the relatively nearby Vancouver area, CN Rail has been known to leave its locomotives running for periods of almost 2 full days in conditions above this temperature. It’s also not unusual for CN to leave its engines idling for up to 70% of the day in that same locale. You are definitely not alone in your concerns!
Has CP given any reason as to why they want to use that specific location for idling? There’s one suburb in Vancouver that we’ve heard from where CP Rail idles its locomotives behind a children’s daycare facility…
With the winter ahead, unfortunately the problem might well get even worse than what it is now unless you can get CP’s cooperation in moving the locomotives elsewhere.
There is, however, a potential light at the end of the sooty tunnel. Ottawa is currently drafting regulations about locomotive emissions as part of the Railway Safety Act and there will be an opportunity for the public to provide input. We’re hoping that those living with the absurd waste and pollution around rail operations send Ottawa a clear message that the railways can do alot more to reduce their carbon footprint and be more respectful of the environment, and of neighbouring residents.
It’s our opinion that far too much fuel is being wasted: we also hope that rail customers facing fuel surcharges take note.
As soon as the draft regulations are released, we’ll be posting information about it on our blog.
Review the Canadian Transportation Agency’s guidelines very carefully; it details what is required in making a complaint to them. If you have not done so already, involve your local elected officials and ask for their help as well in trying to resolve this issue with CP Rail first.
Let us know of any updates in this situation, and best regards to you and the citizens of Spences Bridge.
On November 21, 2012 a landslide caused the derailment of 4 grain cars cars from a west bound CN train just east of Lytton. No one was injured. Service on the CN line has returned to normal but retrieval of the damaged cars is expected to take a couple of weeks at least. (see attached link for photos).
The accident prompted Spences Bridge landowner, James Kohut, to post the following comments on The Rattler, a community website for the region:
This train derailment further outlines the need for the CN and CP railway tracks to be removed from the Thompson and Fraser River Valleys. The Government of Canada and the railways are acting negligently by operating or permitting the operation of railways along these rivers where it is know the railways are susceptible to huge landslides, rock falls, and avalanches which cause train derailments. To avoid landslides the railway lines should be removed from the rivers and built in safer areas such as tunnels through the mountains where the trains will not be susceptible to derailing landslides or avalanches. This would better ensure that toxic materials traveling on trains do not end up in salmon bearing rivers in which many British Columbians, such as those in the tourism, sport fishing, and commercial fishing industries depend on for their economic livelihood.
In the 1880′s when the Railway’s were established, the Canadian Government did not have the resources or technical expertise to build the railways in safer locations so that is why the rail tracks were built along BC rivers. Today the Canadian Government and the Railways have the resources and technology to tunnel the railways through the mountains in order to create long term economic and environmental operating efficiencies. Furthermore by removing the railways from the Thompson and Fraser Valleys, the economy of these valleys would be greatly improved since most people can’t stand the noise from the railways. The unhealthy high pitched squealing noises and thumping sounds from poorly maintained railway cars, along with other railway noises deter people from creating businesses in the valleys such as tourism or real estate developments. The railways, through a process of externalizing costs onto the public, are purposely harming the economy of the valleys and are harming people’s health by not maintaining their rail cars properly. Instead the railways let people be deprived of sleep with their poorly maintained railway cars. Depriving people of sleep is torture. Torture is illegal in Canadian and international law. This is grounds for a class action lawsuit against the railways which could very well bankrupt them. By removing the railways from the river valleys, the railways would be seen, from a public relations point of view, as being a friend of British Columbians and the environment rather than an being an unfriendly abuser of the environment and people. Also, by removing the railways from the valleys, many economic spin-off effects would occur with one being that the British Columbian and Federal Governments would obtain much higher tax revenues as the Fraser and Thompson Valleys could be developed to their maximum potential economically. Removing the railways from the rivers is a win win situation for all.
If the railways cause an oil spill or other hazard materials spill into the Thompson or Fraser Rivers, British Columbians will be outraged for such corporate negligence when it is preventable. All industries, including the Alberta Oil Sands Industry, that want to transport hazardous goods by rail in BC should help invest in a new safer rail line to transport their goods to Asia. A rail line that does not follow the great rivers of British Columbia.
Hi Dwayne,
You’ve made some excellent points about the problems with current rail infrastructure, particularly on Canada’s west coast.
One further note:
It’s interesting that, internationally speaking, that sleep deprivation is a recognized form of torture when used on prisoners of various circumstances.
However, when one industry engages in this on a mass scale, as is occurring here in Canada, the industry causing the problem on such a significant scale apparently considers it to be just part of routine business.
Last summer I sent a call out to our village asking for volunteers willing to be interviewed about their experience of living in a town with trains coming and going throughout the day and night. Subsequently, thirteen people volunteered to share their thoughts as requested.
Using audio-visual equipment made available to the community by the Spences Bridge Community Club, I filmed, edited and produced an hour and a half video record of what these folks had to say. Also included are various encounters I myself have had with trains passing through Spences Bridge. (The video can now be seen on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOiNMttD6Og)
You are invited to attend the very first public showing of this video. It will be held at the Inn at Spences Bridge beginning at 7:30 PM on Friday November, 23, 2012. Admission is FREE with any donations going directly to the Inn for gracious use of the space. Refreshments and lite snacks provided by the Inn will be available for purchase at the event.
Come hear what these willing storyteller have to share about their experience of living with trains in Spences Bridge (in order of recording and of appearance) :
Hank Klynsoon
Carolynne Terry
Vern Chambers
Roy Jackson
James Kohut
Teresa Wild
Ken Matsumoto
Joe Thomas
Ross Figley
Ray Nigalis
Jean Burgess
Pat Jackson
Kalel Harrison
DVD’s of the video will be available for a nominal fee.
Once again, the video can now be seen on the Internet at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOiNMttD6Og
Hello Dwayne,
Congratulations to the folks at Spences Bridge for coming together as a community and advancing this cause.
We send you our best regards for the launching of yor video.
Hi All
Bottom line is XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Jeff Willsie
President
Ontario Southland Railway
Hello Mr. Willsie,
We are, by no means, taking this lightly. We’ve edited most of your recent comment out because we think it’s reached a point whereby your combative stance that the “railway was there first” (not true in all circumstances,) that anyone currently experiencing hardship due to rail operations should just abandon their homes and move, and calling them “NIMBY’S,” while berating them for the dilemma that they find themselves in is already well-expressed by you on this blog.
We’ve given you all the time and space that you’ve wanted, but, at this point, the repetitive nature of your opinion has just become a predictable taunt that riles and upsets the people looking for answers, help, but most of all, reason.
So, we’re removing your soapbox and unplugging you, but happy to flip the switch back on and post any further constructive comments that you may wish to make.
It has been made abundantly clear that we are fair-minded here and not afraid to represent opposing views. In fact, we’ve welcomed it.
However, there comes a time where we have to say that enough is enough, and this is it.
We welcome your views or comments that provide detail or insight from your perspective on the topics discussed here in the time ahead if you choose to do so.
Best Regards,
Train Jane
On November 21, 2012 a landslide caused the derailment of 4 grain cars cars from a west bound CN train between Lytton and Spences Bridge in the BC interior. No one was injured. Service on the CN line has returned to normal but retrieval of the damaged cars is expected to take a couple of weeks at least.
The accident prompted Spences Bridge landowner James Kohut to post the following comments on The Rattler, a community website for Spences Bridge and area:
This train derailment further outlines the need for the CN and CP railway tracks to be removed from the Thompson and Fraser River Valleys. The Government of Canada and the railways are acting negligently by operating or permitting the operation of railways along these rivers where it is know the railways are susceptible to huge landslides, rock falls, and avalanches which cause train derailments.
To avoid landslides the railway lines should be removed from the rivers and built in safer areas such as tunnels through the mountains where the trains will not be susceptible to derailing landslides or avalanches. This would better ensure that toxic materials traveling on trains do not end up in salmon bearing rivers in which many British Columbians, such as those in the tourism, sport fishing, and commercial fishing industries depend on for their economic livelihood.
In the 1880′s when the Railway’s were established, the Canadian Government did not have the resources or technical expertise to build the railways in safer locations so that is why the rail tracks were built along BC rivers. Today the Canadian Government and the Railways have the resources and technology to tunnel the railways through the mountains in order to create long term economic and environmental operating efficiencies.
Furthermore by removing the railways from the Thompson and Fraser Valleys, the economy of these valleys would be greatly improved since most people can’t stand the noise from the railways. The unhealthy high pitched squealing noises and thumping sounds from poorly maintained railway cars, along with other railway noises deter people from creating businesses in the valleys such as tourism or real estate developments.
The railways, through a process of externalizing costs onto the public, are purposely harming the economy of the valleys and are harming people’s health by not maintaining their rail cars properly. Instead the railways let people be deprived of sleep with their poorly maintained railway cars. Depriving people of sleep is torture. Torture is illegal in Canadian and international law. This is grounds for a class action lawsuit against the railways which could very well bankrupt them.
By removing the railways from the river valleys, the railways would be seen, from a public relations point of view, as being a friend of British Columbians and the environment rather than an being an unfriendly abuser of the environment and people. Also, by removing the railways from the valleys, many economic spin-off effects would occur with one being that the British Columbian and Federal Governments would obtain much higher tax revenues as the Fraser and Thompson Valleys could be developed to their maximum potential economically. Removing the railways from the rivers is a win win situation for all.
If the railways cause an oil spill or other hazard materials spill into the Thompson or Fraser Rivers, British Columbians will be outraged for such corporate negligence when it is preventable. All industries, including the Alberta Oil Sands Industry, that want to transport hazardous goods by rail in BC should help invest in a new safer rail line to transport their goods to Asia. A rail line that does not follow the great rivers of British Columbia.
We’d like to add that the impact from a spike in rail traffic should not be offloaded solely onto residents and their communities to absorb to accommodate the railways.
Better infrastructure is urgently needed already before even contemplating further increases.
On November 21, 2012 a landslide caused the derailment of 5 grain cars cars from a west bound CP train just east of Lytton, BC.
My video foot age of the accident scene can be seen on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCS53Rc_4cc
CN Rail seems to think that leaving their engines idling within the village limits of Spences Bridge is just fine, contrary to the feelings of many villagers who want such practices stopped.
Video footage now online documents a typical idling situation wherein a locomotive, which could seemingly be easily parked further up the line for such an extended duration as this, is left idling for hours and hours right in the heart of the village. Excessive vibration and diminished air quality are the result, both of which reduce the quality of life of the local citizens who are calling for CN to ameliorate the situation.
View video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9yDHJZ-15o
Complaints about such adverse corporate behavior have been forwarded to CN by email: contact@cn.ca
Thanks Dwayne, for a well-prepared video on a very important issue. Locomotive idling and emissions are one of the primary concerns that we hear about on this blog.
come down to my neighbourhood and take pictures of worn out train engines belching smoke and vibrating the houses so bad we have cracks in the walls outside and a bit of ceiling and wall separation. there have been meetings with rail Co’s to help get a long. they say they will then lie about helping keeping the throttle back to cause less vibration and you cannot believe the engine noise. we spent thousands of dollars on double glazed windows a few years ago but the noise is so bad you have to stop talking until the idiots go by. metro passed a emissions bylaw to regulate off road diesel equipment but they do nothing when you ask for help. they get paid for what? wasting taxpayers money, people like to get some sleep before they go to work. the biggest problem nobody else has the balls to get together to actually put up a barricade on the tracks so they lose money and give a little respect and they would get it return
Extended locomotive idling continues to be an issue here in Spences Bridge.
With the dramatic and far reaching rise of the grass roots Idle No More movement, however,
perhaps citizen empowerment can yet bring about some improvement in this long standing issue.
With this possibility in mind, I’ve created an image to help the effort along. Please feel free to use it and share it widely.
Access image here:
http://www.therattler.ca/show408h0s/Idle_No_More_Spences_Bridge_Style
what’s complicated? it’s only if you make it complicated, you should be a politician, that’s why nothing ever gets done, every body seems to be afraid to resolve a serious problem especially with diesel smoke so bad from some of BC Southern rail’s engines you can’t stay outside your house, neighbour’s kids screaming and crying to go back into their house. it seems even though metro vancouver passed a bylaw in 2012 regulating excessive diesel emissions and black fall out over the houses and cars they don’t seem to do anything, collect a pay cheque. we are constantly washing our cars and houses.. march 11- 2013 5:15 pm train going past neighbourhood full throttle worn out engines vibrating the the whole block, the smoke so bad it’s coming thru any little crack of door way or window. i don’t like to bother these people they have a job to do, but at people’s health, i have talked to the pres. frank butzelaar, he said it’s not necessary to go full throttle in the residential area. but the clowns continue, if our cars made that kind of smoke and noise it would towed to the scrap yard. i guess it’s HEALTH before PROFITS. any feed back welcomed
Particulate mattter from diesel emissions can impact human health. That’s not long complicated, it’s a fact recognized by The World Health Organization.
What is complicated is the jurisdictional issues surrounding the enforcement of Metro Vancouver’s diesel emissions bylaw on an obstinate rail industry. In my opinion, that’s where the real problem is.
According to media reports, initially the Metro Vancouver diesel emissions bylaw was intended to include diesel emissions from locomotives. However, as I recall, The Railway Association of Canada has since questioned the jurisdiction of Metro Vancouver to enforce the new bylaw upon its members.
Now, the federal government has picked up the task of regulating the railway’s diesel emissions. A draft of these new regulations is currently pending.
Metro Vancouver has gone to considerable time and effort to address the problem of railway emissions across the region, and taken, in my opinion, a leadership role in proactively pursuing air quality issues around an industry, by the Railway Association of Canada’s own estimates, can idle its diesel locomotives up to 50% of the time.
The RAC could have taken the high road on this, and offered a form of voluntary cooperation on behalf of its member companies, which I believe include the key rail operators in your community, but chose otherwise…
Need I say more…
Hi Train Jane
We are planing to purchase property on Hyland Road in surrey. There is railway track front of property. It’s same track which is 72nd and King George. Have you come across any discussion here on this particular train route? I am trying to get as much info before getting into final phase.
please advice. I highly appreciate your help.
Regards
shaggy
Hi Shaggy,
Sorry for the delay in responding. I have taken time off to travel, and to look into issues involving rail transportation in distant locales.
As for the property in question, you state that the railway operates at the front of the property of interest to you. I’m not certain what actual distance that would indicate, but hopefully you’ve considered talking to both neighbours close by, as well as the railway to get an indication as to what could be realistically expected at present.
If possible, spend an entire day or so there to see firsthand what can be expected in terms of noise and vibration from current rail operations.
However, most of all, please note a common theme when it comes to such situations, as we’ve been repeatedly told, and that is, that the situation with the railways can change overnight, and without any notice to residents directly affected.
This is an unsettling prospect, and one that has carried devastating consequences for many resident stakeholders living in proximity to rail operations.