Ontario
We’d like to hear your story about how railway noise and vibration has affected you, and your community. Tell us about the problems you’ve had – or are continuing to have – with railway noise and vibration. How has it affected you and your quality of life? We’d like to hear about your successes and frustrations in resolving your concerns, as well as hear what current conditions are like in your area.
News Articles, Blogs, Stories and Comments from Ontario Residents … and Posts Relating to Ontario …
- Brampton: Residents comment below.
- Kenora: Residents comment below.
- St. Thomas: See the post Leasing a Loophole.
- Thornhill: See the article Thornhill, Ontario Residents Welcome Bill C-587.
- Vanleek Hill: See the article Vanleek Hill, ON: CN Rail Idling Locomotives.
- Windsor: Residents comment below.
- Woodstock: See the post This Blog Needs the Railway Point of View.
- Barrie: See the post Communities in the News.
- Hamilton: See the post Communities in the News.
- Parry Sound: See the post Communities in the News: The List Continues to Grow.
- Toronto: See the post Communities in the News: The List Continues to Grow.
- Sudbury: See the post Communities in the News: The List Continues to Grow.
- Tillsonburg: See the post Communities in the News: The List Continues to Grow.
- Toronto: See the website Clean Train Coalition.
- Weston: See the website Weston Community Coalition.
- Parry Sound: View the local blog Parry Sounds & Sights.
- Toronto: See the post Communities in the News: Health and Environmental Concerns Raised.
- Hamilton: See the post Communities in the News: Health and Environmental Concerns Raised.
- Burlington: See the post: Via Rail Tragedy Gives Pause for Reflection.
I live in Brampton, Ont. and have a had problem since 1997, delt with CN on many occasions and with the mayor,,Had a meeting April 15th,2003. They worked on the track, however the vibration is still shaking my house, to the point where I am not able to sleep.The trains are heavy and travel fast at times, especially during the night, my bed shakes and the mirrors rattle. and have cracks in the walls of my building. I have several letters signed by the neighbours who are having the same problems. If they are going to have 55 trains a day pass through Brampton, then must enforce a law to have them slow down, or keep fixing the tracks and the bridge so it is not causing problems. This problem has been very stressful and has effected my health.
Christine Merrifield
Hello Christine,
One of the first things you might consider doing is having someone from the City contact CN or Transport Canada and ask what is the current speed designated for the area in question is, as a starting point.
This site exists in part to help people such as yourself.
There is plenty of information on this site, and links, to help you apply for mediation with the railway company concerning their noise and vibration.
Consider collecting signatures on a petition to submit with your application.
We wish you well in moving forward and getting resolution in this matter.
Please keep in touch.
I have had issues with CP rail leaving their engines idling all night long and have phoned CP rail only to be told the same thing….the rail has been there over 100 years and if I don’t like it I can move. This happens continuously at 2 am, 3 am. Why should I have to move because of their noise? They are not supposed to leave free engines running all night, but they do. They are supposed to be “parked” further back, so as not to disturb residents, however they park close to the station so they do not have to walk as far to their vehicles. Also we have to consider the noise pollution. It is a never-ending situation. I have contacted my MP’s office and will submit my complaint to him. I will also ask him to support Bill C-587 because, as Peter Julian has stated, “…all Canadians are entitled to a good night’s sleep” !
We recommend that you contact your local health department or city/municipal hall and have them ask CP about its locomotive idling policy, in writing. We also suggest that they ask CP where the designated area for parking idling locomotives is located, and if there’s a shop track with spill trays for them.
Let CP know, in writing, your specific concerns. Are they following their own policy? Idling locomotives are a recognized possible source of noise and vibration under the Guidelines drawn up by The Canadian Transportation Agency. You can find links on our site.
If you feel that your concerns have not been resolved, consider filing for mediation with the Agency listed above.
Railways are obligated to make only as much noise and vibrations as reasonable, under current legislation. If CP is not leaving their idling locomotives where they’re supposed to, it is possible that this could lead to unreasonable noise and vibration.
We hope this helps.
I live in Vaudreuil-Dorion, quebec, have suffered all night long train vibration from CP engines left running. Have complained to CP, local MNA, the City of Vaudreuil-Dorion still problem persists. I plan to move.
We are very sorry to hear this, it happens all too often.
You state that you have contacted your M.N.A. (FYI: for our readers, a M.N.A. is a M.L.A. in other provinces) – could we suggest that you also contact your M.P. as well? Your M.P. represents your area on a federal level, as railway noise and vibration falls under federal jurisdiction.
Please let them know that this problem is severe enough that you feel you have little alternative except to give up your home and move.
We think it’s quite likely that this problem may very well continue after you leave, for other people, so it would be a helpful gesture if your elected representative there is made aware of the problem now, in the event of its continuation.
I live in Port Hope and CP drivers blow all night long. I have phoned to complain, but NOTHING has been done .Daytime VIA “outlaws” make you jump on your seat if you’re sitting in the back yard.
Visitors ask “Are they aloud to blow so loud ?”
Looks like they don’t have any rules.
CN drivers are more civil.
Train whistles can measure in excess of 90 decibels, and that’s a volume which is proving excessive and disruptive for many people.
We’ve posted numerous other comments recently about whistling, and having it stopped. Perhaps review a few of these and see if there is anything that can be done there to curb the whistling problem in your community.
You might also review the section about whistling on our resource page.
Sorry, that should say “we have to consider the AIR pollution”. Thank you.
I live in Windsor, Ont. We had no idea when we purchased our house 7 years ago there was a problem with idling trains. My Grandmother had lived in the house for 49 years. She died of lung cancer. I have always wondered if her lung cancer was linked to the trains. We wake up with headaches and feeling ill all the time, due to the trains idling. We can feel the vibrations in our bedroom from the trains. I have also suffered with asthma problems since we moved here. We have found a black coating on our windows and anything that is left outside our house. I will not plant a garden due to this. The government needs to step up to put a stop to Idling trains. I have called CP several times since we have moved here . They ask me to write down the number of the train to report it. It hasn’t done us any good. The trains even idle when the weather is warmer. CP seems to have gotten away for this for years and will continue. Until families step up and push the government to end this. I have called city council and members of parliament and will continue to keep calling.
Have you asked CP to clearly state what their policy is regarding fuel conservation and iding diesel locomotives?
We recommend this as your starting point in tackling this problem. It would be likely very beneficial if you could ask an elected representative from Windsor (your M.P. or Mayor, for example) to request clarification on this policy on your behalf.
Have them ask for clarification, in writing, regarding when locomotives are to be shut off, after how long they are to be shut off, and where the shop track is located for parking the engines. Are the engines being parked in the designated area? Is the designated area in a location in which is, in itself, causing problems with noise, vibration, and fumes?
Ask why CP is not using idle reduction technology there to reduce noise, vibration, and fumes, and cut fuel consumption. We mention this as you note this problem can occur during warmer weather.
We further recommend keeping a detailed, and very accurate log about this problem. Include the date, time, and duration of the occurences, as well as the total numbers of locomotives involved.
Try to get and record the identifying numbers of the engines themselves if possible without setting foot on railway property to do so.
Lastly, add to your notes the officially-recorded temperature (high and low, if idling for an extended period) using Environment Canada’s recorded temperature for your area. This can easily be found on their website, and is extremely useful and accurate.
CP needs to know, in writing, specifically what problems you are experiencing with their operations.
Under federal legislation, a railway company must contain noise and vibration to reasonable levels.
If you are unable to resolve this problem with CP, you can then apply for mediation with CP through the Canadian Transportation Agency.
You will find links on our site here. Please review The Canadian Transportation Agency’s site thoroughly – you will find that they identify noise and vibration from idling locomotives as one of the potential problem areas that they could consider for mediation.
Fumes and health issues are not part of the CTA’s mandate as of yet. Ask your local health department to visit and inspect the soot that you’ve noted around your home, and ask them to follow up any concerns that they might have as a result with the railway.
We wish you the best in moving forward with your concerns; please keep us updated and let us know of your progress.
Hi: I live in Windsor on Memorial Drive. They built the new underpass which opened last year on Howard Avenue. The trains were noisy before that, but WOW – NOW – the vibration and echo from the trains since the underpass has opened has increased significantly. I have prepared a petition which our City Council rep will be taking to review. Myself and another resident met with CP officicials about the noise, shunting, dynamic air braking, idling and diesel fume discharge as well as the speed used considering some of the items the trains carry are toxic. This is a residential area with seniors and children living and playing within 50 feet of these trains. The trains blow through here all hours of the day and night. We were told this stretch of the railway is a “sterile corridor” as all trains that go to the US enter the railway under the Detroit River. There were a number of evergreen trees that were taken out along this track after 911 with promises to put up some type of barrier to reduce noise, which has never ocurred. The rail is wide open for anyone to cross and the noise is unbearable. We are looking to submit a copy of the petition with an application for review to the Canada Transportation Agency as well. I can’t believe that we are living with these conditions knowing the ill effects noise and vibration related to operation of trains have caused on human beings. I do understand that goods must get from A to B, but that business should be done responsibly with due dilligence for the protection of human beings our most precious commodity, no matter what. Mary Reaume
Hello Mary,
Your letter echoes what is becoming a familiar theme for us in two regards.
The first is that the problems that you describe are a result of changes initiated by the railway. The second is that our impression is that, based on what you’ve written, you come across to us as being realistic and reasonable.
We continue to hear from people like yourself that have been subjected to a major change to rail operations that they could not likely have ever anticipated happening, nor the impact it would have upon their lives.
Did the railway provide the residents any notice of this change before it was made?
You mention “promises to put up some type of barrier to reduce noise, which has never occurred.” Who made these promises, and was any of this ever put into writing?
You mention children playing within 50 feet of the trains – does this refer to residential yards, public parks, or something else? Could you describe this area more clearly. Does Transport Canada (separate from The Canadian Transportation Agency) know of the resident’s safety concerns there, including proximity (the children’s) to the trains and concerns about train speed? What is the train speed for the area you are concerned about?
Please take the time to familiarize yourself with the Canadian Transportation Agency’s Guidelines for rail noise and vibration complaints, links can be found on our resources page.
Consider keeping an incidents log detailing time, location, type of noise and/or vibration concern, and corresponding locomotive engine numbers, if visible from property that does not belong to the railway.
Have any noise studies been conducted there?
As for your petition, please note that whistling is a separate issue handled by Transport Canada, the railway, and City officials. The Canadian Transportation Agency is more directed to concerns about other type of railway noise and vibration, and whether or not they are reasonable.
So, if it is your opinion that the noise and vibration is not of a reasonable nature, it might be helpful to explain specifically what you and your neighbours find unreasonable about it.
Let us know how your efforts progress.
Hi
Port Hope Ontario – we live less than 500 feet away from the double tracks – there are numerous level crossings in the area and of course the whistles blow loud and long with every train that passes. There are currently approximately 56 trains per day (and night!!) which seem to be getting longer and heavier (and louder) with every season – many now are ‘double decker’ shipping containers and airplane fuel tankers. In addition to the general noise and disturbance of this constant traffic, I have grave concerns about the safety of the two very high historic railway overpasses here – especially on windy days! In light of the disaster in Burlington last month, and the derailment between Cobourg and Port Hope last year. I keep thinking that if a train were to derail on those overpasses and those double decker cars were to topple off – it would be a total nightmare! If toxic substances were to crash from that height, it would destroy our town!
While I understand the economic need for rail traffic, I think that the rail lines should be re-routed into an area which does not have such a dense population or such risky overpasses.
To Nimbys
People moved in beside the railway of their own free will. I you dont like living in the back yard of the railway, move!In 35 years at CPR i was on strike many times & every time the federal government forced us back to work within 2 weeks, as the operation of the railway is critcal for a prosperous economy.The economy is the most important issue today.The railway shall have more traffic as oil prices rise so if you do not like the noise,vibration & diesel exaust then of course you should move as the railway cannot.
Jeff Willsie
President
Ontario Southland Railway
Where the railway can move, Mr. Willsie, is in terms of shifting its attitudes as to how it views and values resident community stakeholders in its operations.
Basic cooperation and mutual respect will become increasingly important over time as rail traffic increases and residential presences grow.
Hi Train Jane
I see you views & values of trying to stop train operations fron 2200 hrs to 0800 hrs as an assult on the economy of Canada, so there can be no basic cooperation or mutual respect. Your position is absolutely rediculous.
The railways nor the government are not responsible for your foolish real estate desisions.
Jeff Willsie
President
Ontario Southland Railway
Hello Mr. Willsie,
My views and values? Really? How did you arrive at this erroneous conclusion? Perhaps you intend this as a backwards complement, but, I can honestly say that I’ve had no hand in the drafting of the text for Bill C-393 which seeks to limit hours of operations for trains as you take exception to.
That’s a Parliamentary Bill, tabled by Member of Parliament Peter Julian.
Get your facts straight first, Mr. Willsie, before pointing a foolish finger elsewhere.
WOW!!! WHAT BLISS!!!!!!!
CP freight on strike today!! The silence is GOLDEN here in Port Hope!!
How have things been since CP Rail was sent back to work?
I live in Brockville and VIA Rail has parked engines on idle all night the last week because of the CP Rail strike. They park them right at the train station in a residential neighourhood and cause us to lose sleep and smell fumes ( house is a 100 ft from the train\)> VIA’s response was the noise bylaw allows them to do it, so they are doing it and screw you.
They didn’t notify us they would be doing this, nor did they reach out to the households and inform them what was happening. VIA is not a responsible corporate citizen at all!
We suggest that you contact Environment Canada, who have been looking into the issue of locomotive idling and emissions and let them know about this incident.We feel that there is a real need to regulate this type of situation and protect the public from rail practices such as the one you describe.
I’ve been living (by circumstance) approximately 100 feet from the tracks by the Paris Street overpass in Sudbury for almost six months. There are 21 tracks layed side by side and six or more trains stopped at any given time of the day. The trains run all day and all night – there is never a reprieve.
While we are fortunate that we do not have to endure the train horns, we do experience the shaking of the building, the screeching of the wheels on the tracks, the smashes and bangs and the trains stop outside our door. Several times a week we will hear a bang so loud it makes us jump. There has not been one night in six months when I’ve not been woken up in the night several times by the trains.
Being a relatively new resident of Sudbury I am shocked that the rail company feels it’s still necessary to run trains THROUGH the heart of the city 24/7. There are no sound walls, no barriers of any kind to buffer the noise. There is talk of beautifying the downtown core around this area however no mention of beautifying the air waves with changes or improvements to the current rail system.
I’m honestly at my wits end with sleep deprivation and stress from the noise all day and all night long.
We’re sorry to hear about your situation. Consider letting your civic officials know that beauty, in this case, is in both the eye and the ear of the beholder, and, on this basis, perhaps should consider some acoustical testing of overall noise levels as a starting point of any “beautification” project…
Dear Mr Price
You moved into the railways back yard of your own free will.The railway is not responsible for your foolish real estate decisions.The solution for your problem is to move.You have the same chance of changing the railway as a person living next to the 401 has in stopping the 24/7 operation of the truck traffic.
A restfull night is just a move away.
Jeff Willsie
President
Ontario Southland Railway
Hello Mr. Willsie,
Just a reminder that the railways do have responsibilities to residents, and one of those responsibilities is to make only such noise and vibration as reasonable.
Mr. Willsie,
Your response is pretentious and arrogant.
Unlike those living next to the 401, the railway refuses to put up accoustic barriers nor planted trees for natural sound absorbtion. Both of which show responsible consideration for human beings and the quality of life around the tracks.
And, it is Ms. Price.
Ms Price
Why should the railway put up sound barriers? The railway was, for shure ,there long before you were born.You chose to live by the railway ,you chose to live with the noise & vibration.Maby you should put up the noise barrier.By the way most of the 401 does not have noise barriers & i see a lot of country homes beside it.The raiway is not responsible for your stupid real estate decisions. Buyer beware & location, location, location govern real estate.
Lets take Mr Bickley in Woodstock for example.He says he has been living next to the railway for 40 years & complaining for 20 years. There has been no relief for him for 40 years & there is no change comming. Folks that do not like the noise & vibration of the railway should move or live with it as no change is is comming in the forseable future.
Maby your city council can build a barrier & then your property taxes can go up 20 or 30%
Moving is the only quick solution for your problem.
Jeff Willsie
President
Ontario Southland Railway
Hello Mr. Willsie,
Why should the railway put up sound barriers? Would the question more realistically be, why shouldn’t the polluter pay?
We also disagree with you that there is “no change coming.” (sic)
This issue is continuing to gather momentum, Mr. Willsie, or to put into your terms, the train has already left the station.
There has already been one Decision rendered by The Canadian Transportation Agency that placed the responsibility for the financing and installation of noise barriers squarely in the railway’s lap, where it belongs:
http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/220-r-2012
We’re hoping for more Decisions where the polluter pays.
I moved in beside a railway track 5 years ago and have noticed more traffic than when it started. However, I moved in beside a track and my house was cheaper because the track was there! When CP added a shunting yard about 1 mile from my house, they had to have a public meeting to discuss the change and answer the concerns of residents. This seems to be common practice when changes to the rail system (or roads, developments, etc.) are made. I understand idling changes aren’t necessarily dealt with the same way, but I think we should understand that we moved beside a railroad and transportation changes do take place. Rail is the cheapest and safest mode of transport for goods (especially hazardous), so if we are going to keep this economy going, we need rail to keep moving. If all of this traffic moved onto roads, it would be an absolute nightmare for all of us. So, I understand it is an annoyance (sometimes even more than that), but we did move beside the rail and there is some expectation of noise and impact on residents from that.
Hello Jeremy,
Many of the folks that we hear from are very reasonable in their acceptance that living in proximity to rail operations means that there will be some level of disruption.
The problem occurs when those levels become excessive, or when the railway initiates changes without consultation with residents, you are the first person we’ve heard from that received advanced warning of a change to rail operations, so we can’t agree with you that it is common practice, but would welcome it occurring more than it currently is.
We agree with your comments about the importance of rail transportation, and think it will become increasingly so. However, we also believe that there is a need for railways to establish better relationships with resident stakeholders, and for clear and concise standards and limits established concerning the amount of noise and vibration emanating from their operation.
The majority of industries in this country face various limits or restrictions to the pollution that they create; why should railways be immune?
Much of the real estate in urban areas in around rail operations is anything but “cheap.” They’re not making any more land, and as land becomes more scarce in more densely populated areas, the need for railways and residents to coexist will become increasingly important.
diesel locomotive run so smooth, I have one idling outside my place right now. There
not annoying in the least.
We’re glad to hear that you’re not affected by the idling of locomotives by your home. Not all of the diesel locomotives currently in use in this country “run so smooth,’ as the one you mention.
Some series of locomotives are extremely noisy, and the much larger, more powerful locomotives that major railways have further worsened problems with vibration.
We also take it that you keep your windows closed when the locomotives idle by your home, given the growing understanding of the health hazards linked to diesel emissions.
Bill C-587 has what status today? What is its expectation?
Spectrum emissions: what jurisdiction in the world has enacted legislation that objectively measures the morphology and range of spectrum emissions, especially those generated in right of way corridors that employ rail technology? What cognitive organization of remedies, and more importantly, penalties is out there?
Bill C-587 can only be understood as a band-aid, a required start, certainly not a remedy to the reality of Canadian urban right of ways.
The stone walling on this reality must cease!
To answer your question: Bill C-587, An Act to amend the Canada Transportation Act (railway noise and vibration control) is a Private Member’s Bill tabled by M.P. Peter Julian.
It’s still at its first reading in Parliament, you can check the Parliamentary website for updates.
In an earlier response, we noted that the Federal Government is drafting regulations pertaining to railway emissions, under the Railway Safety Act.
We will be providing more details as they become available.
It is clear when CPR , or any railway sees their profit margin being affected, they call the legislators. Yet, they will not make that call to make sure the same happens to mitigate disruption to expanding communities . Legislators need to remember it’s not a one way track to their offices. They need to demand the railways mitigate by working with local government planning groups.Legislate it when they omit to do so. It’s accountability, and Canada lacks it in their rail regulations.
Thanks for writing to us.
We understand what you’re saying but we don’t completely agree.
Currently, the Federal Government is drafting provisions to help regulate locomotive emissions.
We’re hopeful that both community interests and the environment will benefit, and the railways might even benefit themselves by conserving more fuel…
There was, in our opinion, a trend towards deregulation of the rail industry in the past, but as problems have surfaced, with the environment, for residents, for rail customers and even rail employees, the Federal Government has been slowly but systematically improving regulation and filling in those voids in which occurred problems previously.
We think there is much more to be done, and our view is that a lack of regulation for noise and vibration from 2000 to 2007 was devastating for numerous communities, as rail traffic grew, and problems compounded.
Regulations previously in place were overturned in a legal challenge by CN in 2000. Parliament stepped in, responding to mounting public concerns and complaints, and amended The Canada Transportation Act in 2007 and re-regulated noise and vibration.
We’re concerned as to whether current regulations in this regard go far enough, and that is something that we’re watching closely.
However, one area that we’re very concerned about is the issues surrounding the Proximity Report prepared by the Federation of Canadian Municipalities and the Railway Association of Canada.
Despite going to considerable lengths to define criteria for distances to separate railway interests from residential homes, it is thoroughly alarming to see that it is having very little effect on the problem as local authorities keep approving new residential construction outside of the report’s recommended distances, while the railways similarly expand closer to where people live.
It’s almost as if there needs to be something spelled out in Ottawa about proximity so that local Governments start getting the message, and railways better manage expansion to mitigate the impact on those who stand to be affected.
Mr. Willsie, first of all I do not believe you are who you make yourself out to be. Surely a President of a Railway Company has enough education to be able to spell words correctly. You are a dinosaur in a Technologically advanced society. Of course the railways are changing, new engines emitting less pollution, different engineering for track maintenance and new train yards being built away from residential areas. These are only a few innovations on the books for trains. So your comments about where people live, who should buy what are a total waste of time, you are on your way of of your job and probably in many other areas of your life as well. Today is all about the environment, cooperation and shared concerns being resolved. We have all learned who conflict can and does destroy lives. I just had to lace into you…enough already … lets work to solve problems together.
I live ate Keele and Dundas and the trains flux and noise have increase during the night hours (12:00am to 6:00am) Very disrupting. We need serious rules on that. Please help.
Night time railway noise and vibration is problem in many cities and areas across Canada, including the Toronto area. We question what the overall impact of rail operations late night is having on human health, well-being, and productivity.
We believe that there is a need for a nation-wide study of sleep disruption from rail activity, and that those results, in our opinion, could be potentially shocking.
Yes, we need, as you say “serious rules.” We need limits based on recognized criteria of the effects of excessive noise on human health.
While the rail industry argues to maintain the status quo based on their economic contribution, we would like to see how much that contribution is costing the economy, based on such aspects as lost productivity from citizens across Canada deprived or denied adequate rest by an industry that has yet to establish limits or standards for its own self-generated noise pollution.